2022.08.24 WednesdayHigh Efficiency Furnace exhaust and plants. Renee Miller began writing professionally in 2008, contributing to websites and the "Community Press" newspaper. Are you insane? Ethylene in the Greenhouse: Symptoms, Detection & Prevention. Check out the MSU Fruit & Vegetable Crop Management Program! Other common venting questions: Even if paybacks are in the two-to-three year range, the long-term savings are worth it., Energy Solutions Center Info on Furnace Heat Recovery. First and foremost, vent all burners to the outside. Cold air blowing directly on plants often strips it of its moisture. Inefficient combustion can emit unwanted and harmful pollutants into the greenhouse that can affect the plants and the people working with them. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. I would agree with Keep it simple stupid, I would call your local gas supplier and have them send out a leakage inspector. Photo credit: Ethylene Contamination: Symptoms andSources in the Greenhouse, Michelle Jones, The Ohio State University. It used to be vented up to my roof and out. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Has anyone done this? Do roots of these polynomials approach the negative of the Euler-Mascheroni constant? Firebridge, Inc is a combustion engineering firm headquartered in Burlington, Ontario with wide experience in industrial furnace engineering. It both protects the plants from the blast and collects any lint and keeps it from view. Can I remove a furnace compartment vent that's obstructing roof repair? According to the U.S. Department of Energy, the recuperator is the most widely used heat recovery device. Tomato plants are very sensitive to certain pollutants found in the exhaust from fossil fuels. Unfortunately, even the furnaces that are highly efficient arent able to combust the gas entirely. One square inch of vent cross section of outside air for every 2,500 BTUs of heater output is recommended. We installed a high efficiency furnace several years ago and were told that the exhaust would not harm plants or bushes. There is also an issue with cleaning cooling coils and condensate drains with cleaners to keep them operating properly. A more likely problem is killing a treasured plant with exhaust gases. All gas-burning appliances generate combustion gases that can be potentially dangerous if your system is not able to get rid of them properly. Hilarious thread. WebChoose shrubs that arent likely to grow or spread to an unmanageable size and avoid plants that produce messy berries that may fall into the air conditioner unit where they may cause problems. You cant detect it without specialized equipment. The 14-point pH scale of acidity runs from 0 at the far acidic end to 14 at the far alkaline, or basic, end, with pH 7 denoting a neutral solution. I'm buying a new Trane S9V2 furnace. You might want to talk to the installer to see if it could be better positioned as to not damage you plants. This shrub thrives in full sun and reaches a mature size of 10 to 15 feet tall with a spread of 5 to 10 feet. And even if screening is installed, it will corrode into rust flakes within a year or two. First and foremost, vent all burners to the outside. Search Products And Discover New Innovations In Your Industry. For example, if your heater is 160,000 BTUs, use 160,000/100,000, or 1.6 times 50 equals 80 square inches (or about half a square foot) of air intake for the burners. Either that or the J I just put out makes it seem so. all rights reserved. We installed a high efficiency furnace several years ago and were told that the exhaust would not harm plants or bushes. How far away from the vent pipe are the shrubs dying? 2. By the way, combustion furnaces usually have PVC pipes as they dont have to withstand extreme temperatures, but they have to be able to cope with the acidic condensate. WebSolved it by placing a cedar wood panel in front of the vent. Common early symptoms are drooping tomato leaves, although they are still turgid and not wilted. Tom Dudek, Michigan State University Extension, and Randy Beaudry, MSU Department of Horticulture - I'm buying a new Trane S9V2 furnace. We'll put this in the "let's not and say we did" category. Also, call your furnace maintenance firm to inspect the unit in question. I work for a gas utility and have never heard of combustion gases killing plants, in fact some greenhouses remove there venting in winter to help heat the spaces. Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LP-gas) is obtained from gas wells or as a refinery by-product and consists primarily of propane with traces of proplyene, butane and butylenes. Or the lack of oxygen may cause the flame to go out and the burner to shut off, leading to freeze damage. 2023 University of Massachusetts Amherst Site Policies, Center for Agriculture, Food,andtheEnvironment, UMassExtension GreenhouseCrops and Floriculture Program, Greenhouse Best Management Practices (BMP) Manual, New England Greenhouse Floriculture Guide, Pesticide Information (Labels, MSDS, WPS), Pesticide Licensing (Certification, Exams, Workshops), Soil and Plant Nutrient Testing and Diagnostics, A Burning Question: Ethylene and Sulfur Dioxide Damage in the Greenhouse. What is the difference between paper presentation and poster presentation? Use indicator plants near heaters or commercially available indicator tubes to warn of excess levels of pollutants. The main signs of a carbon monoxide leak include: The most common locations for a carbon monoxide leak within the HVAC system are the exhaust flue and within the heat exchanger. I'm updating an exhaust pipe on my furnace. Better than a dead bush. 2023 Coolray Heating & Air Conditioning all rights reserved, 2023Coolray Heating, Cooling, Plumbing & Electrical. Can my Furnace and Water Heater share an exhaust? However, there are a few things that can potentially cause a carbon monoxide leak: Read: Why Furnace Is Making A Clicking Noise Troubleshooting Guide. etc. You don't have to use all of the exhaust gas, but you could hook up a regulator or just turn on/off the valve that feeds the gas to the plants. WebBasically, cold temperatures cause plants to starve. Ok so that was a bad idea the only reason i thought of this was back a few years ago i had a grow and i was bringing cool air from the cross pace basement to cool my room and at that time the furnace was also in the basement crosspace. It both protects the plants from the blast and collects any lint and keeps it from view. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. Of course, you wouldnt want the exhaust gases to leave your house only to come back a minute later through a window. Two types of heat recovery systems that are commonly used with industrial furnaces are recuperators and regenerators. There is also an issue with cleaning cooling coils and condensate drains with cleaners to keep them operating properly. Each winter there are several instances of tight greenhouses that have frozen up when the heaters were starved for air and the heat output decreased. A conventional natural gas furnace will vent the dangerous combustion gases through a simple vertical exhaust system that is attached to the furnace. All these tiny particles will end up in the air that you breathe, as soon as the furnace gets switched on. This site is maintained by Center for Agriculture, Food and the Environment in the College of Natural Sciences. How can I use it? In fact, 1 ppm (part per million) of ethylene or carbon monoxide can cause serious damage. Make sure the burner flame is clear blue. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. Consult the manual that came with the furnace. Cold air blowing directly on plants often strips it of its moisture. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. WebOne is that if a condensate drain is draining water from a high-efficiency furnace, this water can be acidic and damage plants. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Peace. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. A disadvantage is that the heat content of the incoming air has some variation, making precise combustion control more difficult. Look for any pattern along the gas pipe route if nearby. VisitTennessee. Jim Roberts from Eclipse notes, Sometimes the cost looks staggering, but remember that most furnaces have a very active running schedule, so the paybacks, even at low gas costs, can be very fast. I would like to update it to "Thermoplastic Pipe" because it require a 0 clearance to combustion material. Especially, if there are gaps in the ductwork, through which unfiltered air can get sucked in. Ethylene (C2H4) is an odorless, colorless gas that acts as a plant hormone. I'm concerned that the exhaust could harm the bush and also that the corrosive gas could tarnish the A/C. Spending too much time in a hot space with low humidity can lead to cracking skin, dry nose and eyes, and so on. The installer is going to put the PVC pipes about two feet away from a cherry bush, actually midway between the bush and the A/C compressor. 3. I have noted plant injury symptoms more often in plastic greenhouses compared to glass greenhouses due to the airtight nature of poly-greenhouses. The cold air that blasts from air vents may keep you and your family comfortable but it harms your plants. This article is devoted to understanding the symptoms of ethylene damage on plants and the human symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning both due to faulty greenhouse heating symptoms. But dont increase your homes humidity just to save your plants. Why Is AC Mini Split Making Noise When Off? So, if you have a 125,000 BTU heater, you would need an 8-inch diameter fresh air inlet pipe that would give you the 50 square inches you need. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. The RIU General Marijuana Growing Forum.Saving lives one grower at a time. WebOne is that if a condensate drain is draining water from a high-efficiency furnace, this water can be acidic and damage plants. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. OP was discussing CO, not CO2. We exhale Carbon Dioxide (CO2) .. just not in the concentrations required to help a grow room. But beware of swollen plant leaves or water spots that turn red or brown. Greenhouse heating is essential to overwinter vegetables in all but the extreme southern latitudes of the U.S. Rather than just keeping plants alive, which can be done at any temperature above freezing, maintaining a temperature set point of 64F or above will help to produce a good yield of high-quality fruit from your greenhouse. However, he also points out that for operators with site emission permits written on a lb/MMBtu basis, recuperation allows the use of more furnace capacity, hence increased productivity. WebFurnace exhaust is killing bushes. If you love a well-placed houseplant and take pride in your green thumb, heres an AC fact that might alarm you: Your AC can harm (and even kill) your houseplants. Test your main heating system a few weeks before the expected heating season to be sure it is working properly. Also, space heaters may consume oxygen and deplete it so that incomplete combustion may result, producing harmful by-products. Thus, many growers will put a young potted tomato transplant into every new growing area they open up each season to test for low levels of the damaging gas. Plants are very susceptible to ethylene injury at levels from 0.01 to 1 ppm or more. Visit Georgia. Ethylene gas is another pollutant formed during combustion. According to the U.S. Department of Energy, the recuperator is the most widely used heat recovery device. It can also be formed from ripening or rotting plant materials. You don't have to use all of the exhaust gas, but you could hook up a regulator or just turn on/off the valve that feeds the gas to the plants. There are still a good many plants with major energy reduction potential, and the level of adoption is uneven. High Efficiency Furnace exhaust and plants. However, plants that bloom once like lilies, tulips and hyacinths will likely not bloom if they have been exposed to ethylene when they were in the flower bud stage. If I can revive it or plant new I'll either add a slight angle to the exhaust or wrap the holly in burlap to protect it and see how that works. The installer is going to put the PVC pipes about two feet away from a cherry bush, actually midway between the bush and the A/C compressor. Tomatoes will exhibit injury within 24 hours if ethylene is present. Bluestem joint fir is extremely heat- and drought-tolerant, and its small size and moderate growth rate make it a good choice for planting near your air conditioner. A recuperator is a gas-to-gas heat exchanger that is installed on the furnace exhaust that preheats incoming The bush is an excellent indicator of how wide this vent's effect is. lost in a matter of hours. Mine haven't complained yet. Also, there seems to be a gurgling sound that I did not notice previously. Any thoughts? The gas lines are in a different location altogether so I don't think that is the problem. As damage continues, flowers form, but then fall off. This colorless and odorless gas is harmless when breathed in small amounts (thats what we do all the time), but in enclosed spaces, a high concentration of CO can become extremely dangerous. You should consider contributing to our CFE Media editorial team and getting the recognition you and your company deserve. WebUnvented heaters can be fired with natural gas, propane or kerosene. WebHowever after the second year the furnace exhaust killed the top 1/3 of one holly. The combustion process for both natural gas and LP gas are very similar. The 4-H Name and Emblem have special protections from Congress, protected by code 18 USC 707. This can be reduced by faster cycle times or the use of multiple vessels at various stages of cooling. The flame should burn clear blue. If an electronic control is used, such as one using mass flow control, it can more readily be adapted via programmable logic controller (PLC) programming changes.. You might want to talk to the installer to see if it could be better positioned as to not damage you plants. In any event, the use of unvented space heaters is too risky for the commercial greenhouse grower. Any thoughts? If I can revive it or plant new I'll either add a slight angle to the exhaust or wrap the holly in burlap to protect it and see how that works. A heater that has been serviced in the fall will probably not be at peak efficiency as spring approaches. Difference between "select-editor" and "update-alternatives --config editor". Consider using a laundry dryer vent hose as a fresh air intake. If the system has been installed correctly and is operating right, then these gases will be expelled out of your house through the ventilation system. The only inhibitor is scale. He explains, The cost of retrofitting little furnaces is disproportionately higher than one operating at, say, 45 MMBtu/hr or larger, so the economic case is more difficult to make.. Even at todays attractive rates for natural gas as an industrial fuel, it makes complete sense to recover as much of the waste heat from the furnace as possible and use it for beneficial purposes. As an example he cites a Tier 2 automotive manufacturer that has a plant with a monthly energy bill of $200,000 per month. That excellent idea of yours should be considered by tent growers. If the color of your plants leaves is fading or if the leaves are wilting, it could be because the plant is too close to an air conditioning vent. Please help me. Not sure if your home is as dry as it should be? WebFurnace exhaust is killing bushes. This is exactly how the system gets rid of the gas that hasnt been fully used during the combustion cycle through the exhaust pipe. However, if the smell is coming from the furnace exhaust pipe, then its completely normal. These fuels are advertised as clean-burning. They therefore make good indicator plants. Check for leaks by placing a smoke bomb or furnace candle within the firebox. So be sure the utility company is prepared with proper equipment to help you. Fortunately, this is usually also the most practical heat to recover and reuse. Ethylene damage seems to be most common on new heaters not installed properly, and on heaters more than six to eight years old. First and foremost, vent all burners to the outside. You have to make sure that there is no rust developing on your flue pipe as it can lead to holes. Reference to commercial products or trade names does not imply endorsement by MSU Extension or bias against those not mentioned. Can I move this outside vent to the roof vent? Make the panel a decorative part of your garden design and folks wont even know you have a vent there. Lastly, research your plants temperature and humidity needs. Before you throw out your indoor greenery (or swear off air conditioning if youre REALLY serious about your plants) well give you some tips on how to ensure the two coexist peacefully. ); carbon monoxide is especially dangerous as this invisible, odorless gas can lead to poisoning. Remember, ethylene is colorless and odorless. This information is for educational purposes only. Want some help? But easily the largest and most concentrated type of heat loss is from the furnace exhaust, some with temperatures of 1000 F or higher. Your IP: 103.30.145.169, Requested URL: www.jlconline.com/how-to/hvac/drain-pain-furnace-condensate-proves-tricky-to-manage_o, User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/92.0.4515.159 Safari/537.36. We have ferns and hostas growing happily in front of it now.
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